diff --git a/libs/ardour/delivery.cc b/libs/ardour/delivery.cc
index b4b9831d97..045417b0cc 100644
--- a/libs/ardour/delivery.cc
+++ b/libs/ardour/delivery.cc
@@ -368,7 +368,6 @@ Delivery::set_state (const XMLNode& node, int version)
 	XMLNode* pannnode = node.child (X_("Pannable"));
 	if (_panshell && _panshell->panner() && pannnode) {
 		_panshell->pannable()->set_state (*pannnode, version);
-		_panshell->pannable()->set_panner(_panshell->panner());
 	}
 
 	return 0;
@@ -399,11 +398,8 @@ Delivery::reset_panner ()
 		if (!_no_panner_reset) {
 
 			if (_panshell) {
+				assert (_role == Main || _role == Aux || _role == Send);
 				_panshell->configure_io (ChanCount (DataType::AUDIO, pans_required()), ChanCount (DataType::AUDIO, pan_outs()));
-				
-				if (_role == Main || _role == Aux || _role == Send) {
-					_panshell->pannable()->set_panner (_panshell->panner());
-				}
 			}
 		}
 
@@ -417,11 +413,8 @@ void
 Delivery::panners_became_legal ()
 {
 	if (_panshell) {
+		assert (_role == Main || _role == Aux || _role == Send);
 		_panshell->configure_io (ChanCount (DataType::AUDIO, pans_required()), ChanCount (DataType::AUDIO, pan_outs()));
-		
-		if (_role == Main) {
-			_panshell->pannable()->set_panner (_panshell->panner());
-		}
 	}
 
 	panner_legal_c.disconnect ();
diff --git a/libs/ardour/panner_shell.cc b/libs/ardour/panner_shell.cc
index b489354e21..0297cba6ef 100644
--- a/libs/ardour/panner_shell.cc
+++ b/libs/ardour/panner_shell.cc
@@ -101,6 +101,7 @@ PannerShell::configure_io (ChanCount in, ChanCount out)
 	if (!_force_reselect && _panner && (_panner->in().n_audio() == nins) && (_panner->out().n_audio() == nouts)) {
 		return;
 	}
+	_force_reselect = false;
 
 	if (nouts < 2 || nins == 0) {
 		/* no need for panning with less than 2 outputs or no inputs */
@@ -108,6 +109,9 @@ PannerShell::configure_io (ChanCount in, ChanCount out)
 			_panner.reset ();
 			_current_panner_uri = "";
 			_panner_gui_uri = "";
+			if (!_is_send || !_panlinked) {
+				pannable()->set_panner(_panner);
+			}
 			Changed (); /* EMIT SIGNAL */
 		}
 		return;
@@ -140,6 +144,9 @@ PannerShell::configure_io (ChanCount in, ChanCount out)
 	_current_panner_uri = pi->descriptor.panner_uri;
 	_panner_gui_uri = pi->descriptor.gui_uri;
 
+	if (!_is_send || !_panlinked) {
+		pannable()->set_panner(_panner);
+	}
 	Changed (); /* EMIT SIGNAL */
 }
 
@@ -192,6 +199,15 @@ PannerShell::set_state (const XMLNode& node, int version)
 								_is_send ? _pannable_internal : _pannable_route, _session.get_speakers ()));
 					_current_panner_uri = p->descriptor.panner_uri;
 					_panner_gui_uri = p->descriptor.gui_uri;
+					if (_is_send) {
+						if (!_panlinked) {
+							_pannable_internal->set_panner(_panner);
+						} else {
+							_force_reselect = true;
+						}
+					} else {
+						_pannable_route->set_panner(_panner);
+					}
 					if (_panner->set_state (**niter, version) == 0) {
 						return -1;
 					}
@@ -426,7 +442,9 @@ PannerShell::select_panner_by_uri (std::string const uri)
 			ChanCount in = _panner->in();
 			ChanCount out = _panner->out();
 			configure_io(in, out);
-			pannable()->set_panner(_panner);
+			if (!_is_send || !_panlinked) {
+				pannable()->set_panner(_panner);
+			}
 			_session.set_dirty ();
 	}
 	return true;
@@ -435,9 +453,20 @@ PannerShell::select_panner_by_uri (std::string const uri)
 void
 PannerShell::set_linked_to_route (bool onoff)
 {
-	if (!_is_send || onoff == _panlinked) {
+	assert(_is_send);
+	if (onoff == _panlinked) {
 		return;
 	}
+
+	/* set _pannable-_has_state = true
+	 * this way the panners will pick it up
+	 * when it is re-created
+	 */
+	if (pannable()) {
+		XMLNode state = pannable()->get_state();
+		pannable()->set_state(state, 3000);
+	}
+
 	_panlinked = onoff;
 
 	_force_reselect = true;
@@ -446,7 +475,9 @@ PannerShell::set_linked_to_route (bool onoff)
 			ChanCount in = _panner->in();
 			ChanCount out = _panner->out();
 			configure_io(in, out);
-			pannable()->set_panner(_panner);
+			if (!_panlinked) {
+				pannable()->set_panner(_panner);
+			}
 			_session.set_dirty ();
 	}
 	PannableChanged();
diff --git a/libs/ardour/route.cc b/libs/ardour/route.cc
index a2176e8d45..f994fe3d69 100644
--- a/libs/ardour/route.cc
+++ b/libs/ardour/route.cc
@@ -2568,7 +2568,6 @@ Route::set_processor_state (const XMLNode& node)
 
 				} else if (prop->value() == "send") {
 
-					boost::shared_ptr<Pannable> sendpan (new Pannable (_session));
 					processor.reset (new Send (_session, _pannable, _mute_master));
 
 				} else {
diff --git a/libs/panners/vbap/vbap.cc b/libs/panners/vbap/vbap.cc
index fc349eb795..e15e2abb4c 100644
--- a/libs/panners/vbap/vbap.cc
+++ b/libs/panners/vbap/vbap.cc
@@ -77,6 +77,9 @@ VBAPanner::VBAPanner (boost::shared_ptr<Pannable> p, boost::shared_ptr<Speakers>
         _pannable->pan_azimuth_control->Changed.connect_same_thread (*this, boost::bind (&VBAPanner::update, this));
         _pannable->pan_elevation_control->Changed.connect_same_thread (*this, boost::bind (&VBAPanner::update, this));
         _pannable->pan_width_control->Changed.connect_same_thread (*this, boost::bind (&VBAPanner::update, this));
+        if (!_pannable->has_state()) {
+                reset();
+        }
 
         update ();
 }