diff --git a/libs/ardour/automation_control.cc b/libs/ardour/automation_control.cc
index f2361c2b30..bfb1046849 100644
--- a/libs/ardour/automation_control.cc
+++ b/libs/ardour/automation_control.cc
@@ -88,6 +88,8 @@ AutomationControl::set_automation_state (AutoState as)
 		}
 
 		if (as == Write) {
+			/* get state for undo */
+			_before = &alist ()->get_state ();
 			AutomationWatch::instance().add_automation_watch (shared_from_this());
 		} else if (as == Touch) {
 			if (!touching()) {
@@ -122,10 +124,6 @@ AutomationControl::start_touch(double when)
 
 	if (!touching()) {
 
-		if (alist()->automation_state() == Write) {
-			_before = &alist ()->get_state ();
-		}
-
 		if (alist()->automation_state() == Touch) {
 			/* subtle. aligns the user value with the playback */
 			set_value (get_value ());
diff --git a/libs/ardour/automation_list.cc b/libs/ardour/automation_list.cc
index 7f7599f8ca..706a3330a7 100644
--- a/libs/ardour/automation_list.cc
+++ b/libs/ardour/automation_list.cc
@@ -276,7 +276,11 @@ AutomationList::state (bool full)
                 if (_state != Write) {
                         root->add_property ("state", auto_state_to_string (_state));
                 } else {
-                        root->add_property ("state", auto_state_to_string (Off));
+			if (_events.empty ()) {
+				root->add_property ("state", auto_state_to_string (Off));
+			} else {
+				root->add_property ("state", auto_state_to_string (Touch));
+			}
                 }
 	} else {
 		/* never save anything but Off for automation state to a template */